Clumper suggestions for the hot and humid southeast

[needmore]

My gut says that Fargesia & Chusquea do not like warm nights/warm soil from from hot days/warm nights and that is why they struggle in hot climes. The Chusquea REALLY do not seem to take it at all, the Fargesia less sensitive. Dry daytime hot air must only make it worse for both.

[Samajax]

Thanks Brad, that's exactly my experience...it is the warm nights that seem to cause the issue, not warm days- especially with most Chusquea.

Austin is an odd place for zone 8b. A bit to cold (some years) for many of the tropicals. The problem with the tropicals I grow is their adult size. So tall, so much room, and hard to get up high when trimming after a bad winter. The Multiplex varieties are a given (I grow Alphonse Karr and Silverstripe), but I'm not that crazy about most of their growth habits. I long for the look of a Fargesia- lush/overflowing, but not that tall- thus my interest in this particular topic.

From what I understand, it would be harder for an Oregon grown fargesia to adapt to my climate, as opposed to one that was started from seed in the south- of the right variety that is. So I'm hoping someone will chime in from the deep south.

I've looked for and update on rufa and scabrida from this site (Florida location), but he hasn't posted any news about his fargesia experiments since 2007, so unsure of the outcome.

http://www.bamboo.ws./complete_list_np.htm

Thanks for all the input.

PS- Brad, I've enjoyed your website for years. thanks.

[bamboothew]

Dry daytime hot air must only make it worse for both.

Brad, that would be my suspicion as well. Either way, we'll find out pretty soon!

I was talking about this with a friend at work with whom I discuss gardening and share a mutual interest in bamboo, and he said he thinks there are some clumping bamboos at the botanical gardens of Clemson University. I went there several times last year and specifically
looked for bamboo but found none, so I look forward to seeing what he is talking about. He said they were pretty small, weepy and in a shady spot near the big Hosta garden, so I would think they are probably Fargesias.

Sounds promising, since that garden is very near my property!

[Samajax]

I took your advice and just purchased a F. rufa from my local nursery. I was really surprised to see one on the shelves. The owner couldn't tell me whether anybody had success in our area, so he said "save the receipt".

It's a Monrovia plant- so grown out on the west coast somewhere.

I'll let you know how it fares in Austin come August/September time.

thanks again for the info.

[bamboothew]

Good luck! It's kinda strange that the nursery would sell plants not knowing if they will even survive there, isn't it? Quick update on my own rufas: So far we have seen days in the mid 80's and humid without any leaf curl on my small starter plants (much smaller than 1 gal), even when in the direct sun for 3-4 hours, with no irrigation after the first 2 weeks. I take that as an encouraging sign, though we have a long way to go before we see our hottest days, of course.

[Samajax]

Yes, it is strange that a nursery would sell something they knew nothing about. I expect Home Depot to sell stuff that is "regional" and not necessarily adapted to your area.

I knew what I was getting into with my Chusquea gigantea experiment, so I only had myself to blame, but when a nursery sells an $80 plant to folks who know nothing about bamboo...and tells them it will be fine.... The sales person quoted me what was on the Monrovia tag.., "some shade, panda's love it".

Since I've digested all the books from Compton, Whittaker, Jordon Meredith and more, these experiments in heat tolerance are fun, expensive, but I go into them completely informed of the potential problems.

There is a term for a certain kind of gardening in south Texas called "pushing the zone", but it usually applies to growing zone 9-10 plants in the ground and hoping global warming will do the rest. I guess I'm trying the opposite.

I bought a Himalayacalamus asper in the fall of 2009 from another local nursery- hoping it would take our heat (planted in almost full on shade). It sent out some shoots in early summer, but by August was a melt down. Once again, the seller had no idea that it was a high altitude plant and not really recommended for our heat.

BTW, the plants I bought is beautiful and full- guess that's what $80 buys.

...and thanks for the update. We've already been in the 90's quite a few times, and are in a drought, but luckily I'm almost completely irrigated here.

[RazinCane]

In lieu of speculation and opinion, the way to find clumpers that grow in your area is to find a southern vendor, of which there a quite a few, and see what they carry. If they can grow it, they sell it, if they don't it's because they've incurred financial losses trying. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Alan_L]

I have to disagree if you're talking about general purpose nurseries and not bamboo nurseries. I see bamboos sold locally that will not survive our winters, or will at least act like perennials. Most nurseries don't have experience with bamboo, at least around here, and will sell it just as quickly as any other plant in stock.

[Samajax]

Sorry, I didn't mean to bring any judgements or problems to the table. My apoligies.

I know what clumpers I can grow here in my zone. There is a list of all the usual suspects. Just like in other regions, we have temperature limits to guide us, and it's pretty easy to find what the numbers are for each species. Some are marginal (too cold some winters), some are to big for my gardening style (B. oldhamii), but I do have quite a few of the semi-tropical species that are doing just fine and approaching adulthood.

We used to have a great bamboo only nursery in Austin, but he closed shop and is now order only. Most of my other species have come through the mail via Robert Saporito and his great Florida nursery. There are good bamboo nurseries in this part of Texas, but most are near Houston, or the gulf coast- about 150-200 miles and one gardening zone away. What works for Houston, will not work for Austin.

I will stick up for my local general purpose stores- they provide a great service and have a lot of info, but you are right, sometimes they don't know what they have when it comes to bamboo. They do usually stick to the proven varieties, but sometimes Monrovia or other growers will sell them on a plant that might not work in the area when planted in the ground.

I do have an opinion about nurseries selling an $80 plant that is untested. If would be different if it was a $10 shrub.

The reason I latched onto this particular thread was to get info on a type (F. rufa) that is not normally grown in my climate, and to see if others had success- and if they did have sucess, what their local conditions were. So in this case, growing F. Rufa in central Texas is a speculation- a choice I made with a bit of knowledge and a bit of finger crossing.

[Samajax]

Picture of planted F. rufa.

[bamboothew]

Somehow I missed several posts in this thread until that last one...the problem with nurseries in this area in regards to bamboo is that no regular nurseries here stock bamboo (I suppose this due to its invasive reputaion here in the southeast) and the closest bamboo nursery is 2 hours away in a much more montaine climate than what I have here. His coldhardiness zone is at least 10 degrees colder than mine, since he told me that his nigra and aurea top-kill most winters. Also. the summer highs at his elevation are probably lower than mine. The only clumpers he had were some rufas that he had only just started growing himself. So that is the reason for this thread: there is simply no info available, seemingly, on temperate clumpers for this area. Technically, I should be able to grow bambusa multiplexes and textilis here, but they would likely look ratty most winters and probably totally top kill many years. I made the mistake 3 or 4 years ago of ordering a multiplex 'Fernleaf' and planting it in the ground straight from its tiny nursery pot. It promptly looked horrible all spring and summer and topkilled immediately when cold weather hit. Supposedly it withstands 6 degrees f with only mild leaf burn, but what I didn't know back then is that the coldhardiess of a small plant is nowhere near that of a mature planting. Currently, that plant is potted on my porch and brought in for the winter to size up until I deem it ready for retrial outdoors. My opinion, however, is that with so many bamboos that will stay evergreen in my climate it is almost worthless to try to grow varieties that are not going to be evergreen. Out of almost 40 species in the ground, only the 2 chimonobambusas are marginal here, and I am only trying to grow those because the culms are so unique.

Also, I do have the Yushania anceps that seems to be doing great here, but though it has a beautiful clumping look it so far it suppoedly has the ability to spread aggressively by long rhizome necks, so it may not be suitable for locations where a clumping habit is absolutely essential.

[Steve in France]

Have considered F scabrida, love the colours of this plant . I grew a Jos F.scabrida in France for a couple of years, until my helpful tenants killed it and planted grass in it's place. It's a fast grower and a little more open than many clumpers, needs a larger space than one would think. I just recieved a large pot from Noah at Bamboo Garden . It's out in more or less full Sun , I'll keep an eye on it and if gets major stress I'll move it. I know members have had mixed resulms with Scabrida , I'm hoping I'm safe with a big division.

[bamboothew]

Thanks, Steve, I hadn't realized that scabrida is apparently pretty sun tolerant and therefore hopefully heat tolerant. May look into that one sometime. Please keep us updated on its progress! Still keeping my fingers crossed with my rufa, no apparent stress yet!

[RazinCane]

For clarification, I said a southern vendor, and meant someone that specifically grows bamboo, Lewis Bamboo, J.M. Bamboo, Bamboo Plantation, Steve Ray's Bamboo, etc... not Lowe's, Home Depot or your local nursery, sorry for the confusion. If you want to know about bamboo talk to the people that grow it, not just sell it. If they can't grow it and you're in a similar climate, chances are you'll be hard pressed to. Not to say that you can't if you're lucky and willing to go thru the time and expense of providing the right conditions with shade cloth and misters and such but do you really want to defy nature?

[bamboothew]

We have had 5 days straight of temps between 90 and 95 degrees and still no leaf curl from the in-ground rufa, even during the time of day when it gets direct sun. Yesterday the potted rufa sitting about 3 feet from it had some curl, but we have had no rain in well over a week and the soil in the pot was extremely dry, much more so than the ground. I watered it and the leaves uncurled within an hour. Meanwhile, most of my phyllostachys species, which have been planted a year longer than the rufa and started out as larger divisions to begin with, are showing leaf curl during the hottest part of day now. The worst species for this so far has been moso, which seems to curl its leaves by midday on any 90f+ day regardless of when it gets watered. I assume this will get at least somewhat better as the plant matures.