Growing larger culms
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alanlsilverman
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Growing larger culms
I have a grove of phyllostachys aureosulcata, yellow groove bamboo. I’ve been growing it for around 15 years. I live in the Mid-Hudson region of NY. The person who gave me the bamboo has culms 30-40 foot tall and two inches thick. In my grove individual culms continue to grow larger but don’t approach that size.
I think I may have allowed the bamboo to grow too thick. Recently I have begun to rigorously cut out old culms, especially at the center of the patch, which is older and within which very few new culms grow. I'm also removing all but the largest new shoots in the spring.
I’m thinking of cutting certain areas further, almost clear cutting patches, then enriching those areas with piles of horse manure. Is this an effective strategy to get taller thicker culms? What about PH? I haven’t done PH testing in a while but I assume that the soil is fairly acid. Might liming the soil help? I’ve attached some photos.
Thanks,
Al
I think I may have allowed the bamboo to grow too thick. Recently I have begun to rigorously cut out old culms, especially at the center of the patch, which is older and within which very few new culms grow. I'm also removing all but the largest new shoots in the spring.
I’m thinking of cutting certain areas further, almost clear cutting patches, then enriching those areas with piles of horse manure. Is this an effective strategy to get taller thicker culms? What about PH? I haven’t done PH testing in a while but I assume that the soil is fairly acid. Might liming the soil help? I’ve attached some photos.
Thanks,
Al
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stevelau1911
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Re: Growing larger culms
I really doubt that culling old culms and dumping loads of manure on your grove. Aureosulcata will also tend to stay around the 1 inch mark, and spread all over the place because it is a screening type. That's just the nature of the screeners.
How is your soil like? Also how deep are the roots growing? I would guess that your roots over your entire grove are not getting very deep, so it won't be possible to produce very large shoots.
One thing I've noticed in growing several species of bamboo is that the largest shoots have been emerging from the parts that were aerated nice and deep with organic materials mixed into it so my guess is that the rhizomes that have crossed those areas were capable of producing a greater amount of root mass in the same area going much deeper than normal which gives them the potential of more production of huge shoots in a given area. I currently have a 16 inch aerating broad fork which I intend to aerate all of my groves with, but I think it is pretty important especially for bamboos to grow deep roots if you focus is on getting larger shoots. The deeper the better as I've seen photos of bamboo roots getting as deep as 4ft.
If you want to confirm it for yourself, I would suggest digging some out just to see how deep the roots are getting. My guess is that your roots are getting no deeper than 7-8 inches. I've figured aeration to be the case because I also grow lots of vegetables, and it always seems like the beds that get aerated deeply are capable of producing the largest vegetables.
How is your soil like? Also how deep are the roots growing? I would guess that your roots over your entire grove are not getting very deep, so it won't be possible to produce very large shoots.
One thing I've noticed in growing several species of bamboo is that the largest shoots have been emerging from the parts that were aerated nice and deep with organic materials mixed into it so my guess is that the rhizomes that have crossed those areas were capable of producing a greater amount of root mass in the same area going much deeper than normal which gives them the potential of more production of huge shoots in a given area. I currently have a 16 inch aerating broad fork which I intend to aerate all of my groves with, but I think it is pretty important especially for bamboos to grow deep roots if you focus is on getting larger shoots. The deeper the better as I've seen photos of bamboo roots getting as deep as 4ft.
If you want to confirm it for yourself, I would suggest digging some out just to see how deep the roots are getting. My guess is that your roots are getting no deeper than 7-8 inches. I've figured aeration to be the case because I also grow lots of vegetables, and it always seems like the beds that get aerated deeply are capable of producing the largest vegetables.
Re: Growing larger culms
Steve, you're contradicting yourself and not reading the info already provided. He already said the parent grove has 2" culms, so I'd expect his plant to produce similar, not just 1" culms. I've also seen Yellow Groove culms thicker than 1".
I'd say dump that manure! Fertilize too (Milorganite is cheap and effective.) Also make sure the grove gets water -- provide supplemental water if possible when it gets dry.
I'd say dump that manure! Fertilize too (Milorganite is cheap and effective.) Also make sure the grove gets water -- provide supplemental water if possible when it gets dry.
Alan.
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stevelau1911
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Re: Growing larger culms
I believe that the mother grove that he got it from may have been in a better location with richer and deeper soil. After 15 years, I think yellow groove should have reached close to it's maximum size.
I just think a feasible solution is to perhaps aerate a section of the grove very deeply, perhaps mixing in some organic materials as it would take way too much water and fertilizer to feed that size of a grove. I think the problem is that the roots just aren't growing deep enough in that grove.
I just think a feasible solution is to perhaps aerate a section of the grove very deeply, perhaps mixing in some organic materials as it would take way too much water and fertilizer to feed that size of a grove. I think the problem is that the roots just aren't growing deep enough in that grove.
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Re: Growing larger culms
Boy Steve you sure are suddenly on a deep roots kick, I do nothing to make my go deeper than they intend to and I get 2 inchers now and then.
Agree with Alan, food and water, perhaps pick a portion of your grove where it may recently be producing evenly sized culms but larger than your average one and give it a healthy frequent dose of manure, perhaps some mychorzial (sp) and water, make sure plenty of light and see if they size up.
Agree with Alan, food and water, perhaps pick a portion of your grove where it may recently be producing evenly sized culms but larger than your average one and give it a healthy frequent dose of manure, perhaps some mychorzial (sp) and water, make sure plenty of light and see if they size up.
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
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Re: Growing larger culms
Feed and water, lots of layers of compost. With rich soil you will have enough insect activity to keep air around the roots.
I do an annual Bark Mulch layer which then gets covered in the fall with more compost. So over time there are layers of different organic material . I use a lot of grass clippings in the Fall, this I believe insulates the rhizomes in the Winter. Also I use stacks of Fall leaves . the more good stuff you throw on the better the result. Lots of watering and you will see a result for sure.
I do an annual Bark Mulch layer which then gets covered in the fall with more compost. So over time there are layers of different organic material . I use a lot of grass clippings in the Fall, this I believe insulates the rhizomes in the Winter. Also I use stacks of Fall leaves . the more good stuff you throw on the better the result. Lots of watering and you will see a result for sure.
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stevelau1911
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Re: Growing larger culms
It's simply hard to ignore the evidence when I see the bigger culms coming out of the sections that I fertilize and aerate the most of. It's even more obvious with vegetables that grow really fast because I'll see a well aerated pepper plant get many times the size of an un-aerated pepper plant.needmore wrote:Boy Steve you sure are suddenly on a deep roots kick, I do nothing to make my go deeper than they intend to and I get 2 inchers now and then.
Agree with Alan, food and water, perhaps pick a portion of your grove where it may recently be producing evenly sized culms but larger than your average one and give it a healthy frequent dose of manure, perhaps some mychorzial (sp) and water, make sure plenty of light and see if they size up.
I also find that my broadfork is working much better than I thought it would. It also has a lifetime warranty so there's no need to be cautious with it.
I think it may be a good ideal to try and pamper the south side of the grove to try and get bigger culms there where there's a lot of sunlight anyways. 1 truck of manure should make a difference, but the aeration really maximizes the intake of water and nutrients. For example, if you planted a watermelon seed in hard soil, and only added manure on the side as it grows a bit, that wouldn't make them really take off as opposed to if you added manure, and mixed it all into the ground.
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Re: Growing larger culms
I don't think that comparing bamboo to vegetables is an accurate comparison, neither peppers nor watermelon have an underground system anything like bamboo. Soooo, you're gonna feed & aerate the soil to get big culms to then peel the culm leaves off so that you have short big bamboo?
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
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stevelau1911
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Re: Growing larger culms
That would be pretty cool to get a 3+ inch culm under 15ft. I already have a 1 2/3 culm around 11ft so I think it should be possible to achieve. If the culm can't store as much energy, it can simply put more of it in the rhizomes to make up for shorter culms.
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Re: Growing larger culms
Not even sure what you mean by 'simply put it back in the rhizomes' I think it may fire off immature buds to have more photosynthesis because it spent lots of energy pushing a fat culm and you vastly reduced the return on investment by stunting it and reducing leaf mass.
In any case, original poster, yes, it seems like lots of manure and water should bump up your yellow groove size.
In any case, original poster, yes, it seems like lots of manure and water should bump up your yellow groove size.
Brad Salmon, zone 12B Kea'au, HI
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dependable
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Re: Growing larger culms
As mentioned, nice thick soil/compost, less acid soil and water are important. But the places where P aurosulcata (yellowgroove) reaches its max height and culm thickness I have seen are actually in partial shade. Seems to me the plant does not bother investing as much into size vs spreading unless it has to reach a little for light.
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Re: Growing larger culms
Hmmm...the biggest pepper plant I ever grew was one planted with some S.y. 'Kimmei'. I got more peppers from that plant than all the other pepper plants combined.
Thinking about peeling the culm sheaths to shorten a large bamboo, I could see doing it if you wanted to make some small round boxes. Cut a section with two nodes for the top and bottom, then cut one node off to make the lid and you are a good way toward making a box.
Thinking about peeling the culm sheaths to shorten a large bamboo, I could see doing it if you wanted to make some small round boxes. Cut a section with two nodes for the top and bottom, then cut one node off to make the lid and you are a good way toward making a box.
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zxylene
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Re: Growing larger culms
I would have to agree my yellow groove just had its second spring shooting and it a little over the 1 inch mark with very nice tall culms and it is in mostly shade with crappy clay soil. The only thing I have ever did was put grass clippings on it a few times over the summer. Now my chickens and guineas do spend some time around the culms scratching and getting bugs etc. so it does get some fertilizer. I have three divisions of yellow groove and the one in the shade is taller and larger than the one in almost full sun. The one in full sun is much more tightly packed and covers a larger area though.dependable wrote:As mentioned, nice thick soil/compost, less acid soil and water are important. But the places where P aurosulcata (yellowgroove) reaches its max height and culm thickness I have seen are actually in partial shade. Seems to me the plant does not bother investing as much into size vs spreading unless it has to reach a little for light.
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stevelau1911
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Re: Growing larger culms
I don't think dwarfing a culm by reducing the internode length will really make it produce less leaves, but it is more likely for the foliage which tends to be very thick anyways to shade itself out a lot more, but there aren't that many culms anyways so I'm not too worried about shading out. The branches do appear to be growing pretty longer on the dwarfed ones, but that may be because they also happen to be larger in diameter than the non-dwarfed ones.
I'm surprised that there still appears to be that much vigor left even though most of the old leaves have fallen off, but the branches do seem to be getting longer than what I would have expected.
I'm surprised that there still appears to be that much vigor left even though most of the old leaves have fallen off, but the branches do seem to be getting longer than what I would have expected.
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Leo S
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Re: Growing larger culms
Hello Alan
Nice to have a 15 year old planting.
Yes, manure, fertilizer, milorganite and lots of water will help your bamboo size up.
Water seems especially important during shooting season. If you have not gotten over 1 inch of rain within the last 7 days, you should get out there and water. I seldom water, but this year we have had rain just about every day for 2 months. I have the tallest aureosulcata shoots I have ever had. I wish I had added fertilizer, but I didn't.
My planting is 30+ years old. It is a confined bed, and the rhizomes get very dense. My grove started performing poorly, especially in the oldest section, nothing real bad, but culms were smaller, and fewer new culms in spring. I had someone who wanted bamboo, so in early spring, I had him do the digging (saved my back). I marked out a section of the grove that included the oldest section. Told him he could take every single rhizome in there for his planting. The maniac did. He essentially took the top foot of soil too. So I filled in the bed with composted manure to replace the missing soil. By mid summer, rhizomes from the undisturbed portions had recolonized the dug up area, mostly with short, roughtly 3 to 8 foot culms. By the end of the second growing season, the dug up area was fully colonized, and culms that sprouted in the enriched soil had culms that were bigger than either side where the grove was undisturbed. By the 3rd year you could not detect where the soil had all the rhizomes removed, one end to the other the grove looked uniformly dense.
I was told about this in 1988, when I chatted with one of the workers in the bamboo garden at the Royal Botanic Garden at Kew, UK. At Kew they renew beds on a schedule. In the area where it is not the show garden, but rather the bamboo collection area, they roto-till 50% of a bed. Then 5 or so years later, they roto-till the other 50% of the bed. They chop up and pull out as much of the old rhizomes they can. Then the bed is left undisturbed for a decade or more, then 2 renewal roto-tillings. It was Kew gardens that first suggested this to me. Others have offered the same advice. It is a standard practice. You don't really need to do it for the first decade, but somewhere down the line it becomes a good maintenance practice.
Since that first experiment, I have had other similar sections of my grove removed, old rhizomes pulled out. (all to be replanted at new homes). The entire planting looks better for it. Well worth doing. I had a section removed about every 4 years, so in 12 years I have renewed 90% of the planting. There are sections at the ends, because of the fence the bamboo is holding up on one side, and obstacles on the other, so the ends stayed undisturbed. But 90% of the grove have been removed, fresh manure and soil dumped in and the bamboo from the other sections completely recolonized it. As long as you renew in sections, the undisturbed portions will quickly re-colonize the renewed areas.
I think this should be done in my zone 5b climate, about every 10 to 20 years. I think a 15 year cycle for renewing a bed is near ideal. Funny you should post photos of your 15 year old planting.
And definitely manure and even chemical fertilzers really help, especially if you get enough rain, or water often too.
It is a luxury, having an old, well established grove, where you can causally talk about chopping out 30% or 50% of it out, and can relax, because you know in 3 years, the renewed portion of the bed will be just as dense as before.
Nice to have a 15 year old planting.
Yes, manure, fertilizer, milorganite and lots of water will help your bamboo size up.
Water seems especially important during shooting season. If you have not gotten over 1 inch of rain within the last 7 days, you should get out there and water. I seldom water, but this year we have had rain just about every day for 2 months. I have the tallest aureosulcata shoots I have ever had. I wish I had added fertilizer, but I didn't.
My planting is 30+ years old. It is a confined bed, and the rhizomes get very dense. My grove started performing poorly, especially in the oldest section, nothing real bad, but culms were smaller, and fewer new culms in spring. I had someone who wanted bamboo, so in early spring, I had him do the digging (saved my back). I marked out a section of the grove that included the oldest section. Told him he could take every single rhizome in there for his planting. The maniac did. He essentially took the top foot of soil too. So I filled in the bed with composted manure to replace the missing soil. By mid summer, rhizomes from the undisturbed portions had recolonized the dug up area, mostly with short, roughtly 3 to 8 foot culms. By the end of the second growing season, the dug up area was fully colonized, and culms that sprouted in the enriched soil had culms that were bigger than either side where the grove was undisturbed. By the 3rd year you could not detect where the soil had all the rhizomes removed, one end to the other the grove looked uniformly dense.
I was told about this in 1988, when I chatted with one of the workers in the bamboo garden at the Royal Botanic Garden at Kew, UK. At Kew they renew beds on a schedule. In the area where it is not the show garden, but rather the bamboo collection area, they roto-till 50% of a bed. Then 5 or so years later, they roto-till the other 50% of the bed. They chop up and pull out as much of the old rhizomes they can. Then the bed is left undisturbed for a decade or more, then 2 renewal roto-tillings. It was Kew gardens that first suggested this to me. Others have offered the same advice. It is a standard practice. You don't really need to do it for the first decade, but somewhere down the line it becomes a good maintenance practice.
Since that first experiment, I have had other similar sections of my grove removed, old rhizomes pulled out. (all to be replanted at new homes). The entire planting looks better for it. Well worth doing. I had a section removed about every 4 years, so in 12 years I have renewed 90% of the planting. There are sections at the ends, because of the fence the bamboo is holding up on one side, and obstacles on the other, so the ends stayed undisturbed. But 90% of the grove have been removed, fresh manure and soil dumped in and the bamboo from the other sections completely recolonized it. As long as you renew in sections, the undisturbed portions will quickly re-colonize the renewed areas.
I think this should be done in my zone 5b climate, about every 10 to 20 years. I think a 15 year cycle for renewing a bed is near ideal. Funny you should post photos of your 15 year old planting.
And definitely manure and even chemical fertilzers really help, especially if you get enough rain, or water often too.
It is a luxury, having an old, well established grove, where you can causally talk about chopping out 30% or 50% of it out, and can relax, because you know in 3 years, the renewed portion of the bed will be just as dense as before.